Insurance for my kid

A place to discuss your kids and dirt bikes

Re: Insurance for my kid

Postby SkyHawk » Fri May 15, 2020 3:50 pm

Okay. I've emailed my mpp office twice. I've called and left a message with the Insurance Bureau of Canada (IBC) and also sent them a message online via contact form. I encourage others to do the same if like me you feel this is wrong.
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Re: Insurance for my kid

Postby mart242 » Tue May 19, 2020 9:46 am

Just call for a quote, say it's your bike but you want to add OPCF 32 and make it clear that it's for off road use only. It provides coverage when any person who does not have a drivers license, or is not authorized by law to drive, operates or drives your recreational vehicle off a public highway.

Don't go into details.
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Re: Insurance for my kid

Postby SimonGagne » Wed May 20, 2020 10:41 am

mart242 wrote:Just call for a quote, say it's your bike but you want to add OPCF 32 and make it clear that it's for off road use only. It provides coverage when any person who does not have a drivers license, or is not authorized by law to drive, operates or drives your recreational vehicle off a public highway.

Don't go into details.


I tried that... the broker was not the issue, but then when he sent the paperwork to the insurance company offices, they saw the bike were smaller displacement(50 &110) and they made me sign a paper stating the bikes will not be used by any underage operator living in the same household and that doing so would void insurance coverage and constitute a false insurance declaration that could affect my other premiums(car, house, etc).

Not sure if it would hold in court, but it doesn't seem to be in my favour.

And yes, I did call all the insurers\brokers I could find that advertise offroad insurance.

So right now I pay for insurance that doesn't even really provide coverage and risk increasing all my other premiums, just so I can get the pink slip and avoid potential tickets. I've tried really hard to do this following all the rules and being law-abiding, but at this point, I'm seriously considering not having insurance on my kid's bikes and take my chances with the fines given that I have never been stopped for insurance\registration in 4 years of regular riding with my kids.

I find it sad this comes to that, but that's pretty much it: either you lie to your insurance company or your ride with no insurance for your kids!

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Re: Insurance for my kid

Postby mart242 » Mon May 25, 2020 4:15 pm

Crap that really sucks indeed. I guess I lucked out when I insured the two small bikes two years ago.
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Re: Insurance for my kid

Postby rossw » Tue May 26, 2020 7:25 pm

I have been informed that there is another option out there and they will insure children less than 12 years.

Northbridge Insurance
Kyle Brown
905-648-3922

If you contact Kyle @ Northbridge, please update this thread with your experience.

Thanks,
Ross
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Re: Insurance for my kid

Postby Trevd » Wed May 27, 2020 8:35 pm

Try George Rappos. Insured a 50 and a 100 this year, no problem.

https://www.georgerappos.com

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Re: Insurance for my kid

Postby Trevd » Thu Jun 11, 2020 4:15 pm

Cancel my previous post about George Rappos.... I contacted him to replace one bike on the policy with a 110, and he informed me that Desjardins no longer insures bikes under 150cc.... My other bikes have been grandfathered in, so that's good, but our new 110 needs to be insured somewhere else.

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Re: Insurance for my kid

Postby RLefebvre » Fri Jun 12, 2020 9:14 am

Hi Guys, new here and also struggling with this issue.

It does seem quite unjust that we legally have to have insurance to access public lands, but the government does not guarantee us access to insurance. It is a particular problem as we are talking this in the context of the struggle to get kids outdoors and into the wilderness.

I recently tripped over a similar problem. I had a 2015 KTM Freeride, blue plated, and had off-road insurance on it through SF. I sold that and bought a CRF450L, though I only intended on riding it off road. I tried to transfer the policy over, and was told that I cannot have an off-road policy on an on-road motorcycle. I called around for alternatives, resigned to the fact that I will have to pay for on-road insurance, but Co-operators wouldn't write the policy unless I brought over all my business. The quote I got was about $1000 higher for my other business exclusive of the new motorcycle policy. So essentially it would cost about $1500 to insure my bike. How is it possible that the insurance industry has regulated rates, but they can pick and choose who they will sell a policy to?

Anyway, so I have a CRF110, XR80, and CRF150F that I need insurance on for the family.
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Re: Insurance for my kid

Postby RLefebvre » Sat Jun 13, 2020 11:14 am

Oh, it gets worse.

So I called my broker, Jennifer Hunt in Barrie. They were State Farm but are now Desjardins/Certas. Have had an off-road policy with them on my KTM Freeride for years. I sold that bike a month ago and cancelled the policy. But I wanted to see if it was still active so maybe I could "grandfather" my kids bikes into the existing policy. Turn out they never even cancelled the policy, it was still alive. Not going to worry about $6/month it was costing me, and figured this was a good thing.

So I said I wanted to transfer the policy to a 2012 Honda CRF150F. This is the bike my wife rides. I was asked if the kids would ride it, and I said they would not. They can not ride it, physically, they can't touch the ground. I could hear trouble brewing in the way the conversation was going and started recording. I said the kids cannot ride it, but I did have two other bikes I wanted to discuss adding to the policy for the kids, after we were done dealing with the first one. She put me on hold about 15 minutes. Came back, and said that they do not insure any machine 150cc or less, as obviously these are intended for children, and they do not write policies for children. I knew this was above her pay grade, but I argued this policy was illogical. CRF150F is a large motorcycle with a small engine, children cannot physically ride it, but it's a very sensible bike for inexperienced adults to learn on. Of course none of that matters. That is the policy.

Absolute insanity. So I cannot get insurance for my wife now because I bought her a sensibly powered machine?!

I had actually thought about trading in my wife's CRF150F for a big-wheel 125 as she's still struggling a bit with the 150. At 250lbs it's a bit heavy. That seems like a bad idea now. Seems like we're being forced into a 230-250.

I'm not normally "that guy" but this almost seems like a human rights issue. My wife is 5'6" with 28" inseam, and she's being force into riding a bike that is too big for her because of an ill-considered policy. It seems the whole thing stems from ATV's and =<150cc ATV are kids machines. But even that is a stupid policy because a child CAN sit on and drive a full-size ATV. This rule does nothing.
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Re: Insurance for my kid

Postby Trevd » Mon Jun 15, 2020 9:15 am

I contacted Kyle Brown from Dalton Timmis (now NFP), and this is what he replied with regarding the OTFR insurance program they have:

Here is a recap of the OFTR program as it stands today for kids.

Children over the age of 10 on bikes greater than 100cc's can have insurance picked up and will be noted in the background of the policy. This means they will not be individually listed by name on the declaration pages as they are not of age to hold a license so programming will not show on the actual paperwork. They are listed on the company program and the application paperwork by full name, date of birth and the bike then intend to ride.

To qualify for this program we use a parents license data. Motorcycle license is not a must but is an assist when determining premium. 3* out of 6 without and potential for 6* out of 6 with a full M. Depends on years licensed with the full M.

The bikes must be accompanied by the Autos and Home/Condo policy in order to write the motorcycles. There are no exceptions on this as the company that has agreed to do this does not write standalone bike and I also stress that this is something they have completely made an exception on as their filed rule is to decline all off-road bikes. (Declining off-road bikes is not uncommon. Most carriers do this.)

There are advantages to having insurance in this program as well. It is treated like a group so there are no fees for monthly payments and one of the more unique features is that for every recreational vehicle added to the policy up to a limit of 3 will lower the annual cost of your auto insurance. You can have more than 3 recreational vehicles but the added discount stops at 3.




So, if your kid is under 10 years old, you're screwed. If you don't like being forced into bringing all your business to one company just to insure a dirt bike, you're screwed.

This situation is beyond frustrating.

It is easy to buy your kid an Xbox and plop him in front of the TV, but trying to get out there and do something fun and exciting is met with obstacles put up by insurance companies.

I could legally put my kid on a bicycle, and send him down Bronson Ave, or any other busy street in the province, into full traffic, with no training, no license, and ... no insurance, and that would be perfectly fine. But trying to get him out into the woods on a 4 hp machine with 10 inch wheels, good luck overcoming the bureaucratic insanity that seems to have permeated the insurance industry. Seems to me that if the insurance companies will not offer reasonably priced insurance for certain activities that are legal, then those activities should not legally require insurance. What kind of society are we going to have if we allow insurance companies to decide what activities we are able to do?


Last year when I had problems insuring my son's 50, I reached out the OFTR. They are definitely aware of the problem. And Arthur Ash, the OFTR president, also told me that they have been unable to find any claims for years for kids on bikes. I reached out to him again this year when I had problems insuring my son's new 110, and he said that they are considering making the issue the focus of their lobbying efforts next year. I really hope they do. If you feel like they should make it the lobbying priority, it might not hurt to send them an email asking them to make is so. The OFTR email address is: info@oftr.ca

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Re: Insurance for my kid

Postby Marilius » Mon Jun 15, 2020 12:43 pm

Just an FYI...

I had insurance with Dalton Timmis for a year. had to bring everything over, price was good for the first year and they were awesome to work with. However on the 2nd year for no reason my rate went up almost 40% and they wouldn't do anything about it and wouldn't tell me why it jump so much. Big time bait and switch scam for pricing, and i wasn't the only one they did this too.
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Re: Insurance for my kid

Postby RLefebvre » Sun Jun 21, 2020 8:57 am

Seems to me that if the insurance companies will not offer reasonably priced insurance for certain activities that are legal, then those activities should not legally require insurance. What kind of society are we going to have if we allow insurance companies to decide what activities we are able to do?


I'm not a lawyer, but I do believe this is actually the law. The government cannot promulgate regulations that are impossible to abide by. There has to be a "means of compliance".

I was on the board of directors of Unmanned Systems Canada 2 years ago when the government instituted new regulations on the industry. Previous to the official regulations, there had only been some ad-hoc rules. One of those rules was that all drone operators (recreational or commercial) needed insurance. Unbelievably when they brought in the new regulations, they dropped the requirement for insurance. The rest of the regulations are quite onerous, so it was shocking that they made this change. Acquiring insurance was difficult, but not impossible. They said that they had to do it because insurance was not available to all.

It seems to me that in the past it was possible to get insurance, but it's not really any more. We should be organizing to fight this.

I was in Limerick yesterday and asked a few parents with kids how they got insurance. They didn't. Non-compliance is high and they are just throwing themselves at the mercy of the police.
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